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About Nafysa Parpia, ND
"Functional and integrative medicine that is heart centered guides how I treat my patients with complex chronic illness. Biochemical imbalances, epigenetic expression, toxin exposure, microbial exposure and emotional imbalance are often key in unraveling the mystery of and treating chronic illness. Each of these aspects is different for each patient. Thus, with compassionate listening and cutting edge laboratory tests, I can create treatment plans that are highly individualistic and healing." Dr. Parpia addresses physical symptoms as well the mental and emotional aspects of her patient’s lives that may affect or be affected by their condition. She is a partner and guide on the path to wellness of each of her patients, taking into account all aspects of their life and health as a unique whole. She draws upon her training with world renowned Lyme and chronic disease specialist, Dietrich Klinghardt, MD, PhD in treating patients with such conditions.

Watch H3O2 -The Missing Link in Chronic Illness

Cultural Anthropologist and Hydration Foundation Founder, Gina Bria, and Wellness Enterprises Founder, Patrick Durkin join Dr. Gordon and Dr. Parpia for a fascinating conversation about the newly discovered 4th phase of water.

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Disclosure: We were given an Aqua Energizer to try out, and were so pleased with it that we gifted that one to a friend, and purchased another for our own use and became affiliates. It’s our pleasure to provide you with information and tools. Please note that we receive a small commission only when you purchase items after following our *affiliate links. We only share products we use and believe in. We will never share anything with you that we don’t personally use, support, or recommend to our patients.

Highlights

  • What structured water is and why it is vital to our health
  • How structured water hydrates at the cellular level
  • Science behind the effects of structured water on natural immune function & the healing process
  • Ways to naturally produce more structured water in our bodies
  • Some of the top foods to eat to get more structured water into your diet daily
  • Aqua Energizer, the state-of-the-art system, we use ourselves and the technology behind it

The *Aqua Energizer Structured Water Device is the first scientifically verified and certified line of structured water devices in the world. Each unit is hand-assembled from copper, quartz, and minerals.

You can learn more about Gina Bria at www.hydrationfoundation.org. You can send questions to Gina Bria at gina@hydrationfoundation.org and Patrick Durkin at patrick@thewellnessenterprise.com

Q&A with Gina Bria and Patrick Durkin

A: The important thing is for you to love the water you are drinking and you feel hydrated. One of the ways to enhance all water is to structure it with a structured water device like the Aqua Energizer.

A: Structured water devices rearrange molecules; they don’t remove them. The chlorine and fluoride are not removed physically, however, because The Aqua Energizer™ changes the oxidation states of chemicals, it has made the chlorine smell and taste dissipate and even disappear. That’s one of the best benefits of the Aqua Energizer.

Showers and baths are so invigorating and enjoyable and feel like immersing yourself in a waterfall. You can read about the test that was done with the device that shows it renders some toxins inactive and changes the chemistry of water on this link. 

We recommend studying the principles presented by Dr. Emoto and homeopathy to further understand the contention that without structuring water to rearrange molecules, the water will never be safe. We favor structuring water as the most essential element of safe water and only use filtering as an option.This blog answers your question.

A: Charging water with gem stones is an ancient practice. The Wellness Enterprise has structured water devices with quartz crystals the water runs over and you can read more HERE.

They also have gem stone bottles. Shungite is a powerful stone that many have used in water for purification in addition to support with EMFs. 

A: Structured water is not the same as hydrogen water.

Gina Bria from the Hydration Foundation, says the following about hydrogen water:

“Think of ozone and hydrogen water as additional therapeutic approaches above and beyond hydration. I say this because these techniques, ozone and hydrogen, add extra molecules to the water molecules. So they are not basic hydration, but therapeutic additions. I think they are great for adding therapy to your life if you have chronic stresses but don’t use them for just drinking. I worry they can be overused under that concept.”

The Wellness Enterprise are believers that nature is the ultimate source of our energy and wellbeing and that man distorts nature in the name of progress which in most cases is really the name of profits rather than progress. Nature already got water just right and that water is structured.

The structured water devices we offer, the Aqua Energizers, make nature’s water in the closest way we know. The system you ask about is a man made adaptation to water. While we don’t doubt the current list of growing fans of hydrogen water, we are not interested in being part of a fad. Brilliant people will never stop coming up with their own version of water and we’ll just continue to kick it old school by following nature with structured water.

A: Here is the response from Patrick Durkin. Note in paragraph 3 that there are more ways to get structured water than by using heat.

Structured water, also known as hexagonal water, vortexed water, EZ water, and gel water, is a form of water that is different from H2O with the molecular structure H3O2. Discovered by Dr. Gerald Pollack at the University of Washington, H3O2 is referred to as the 4th phase of water, a form of water beyond liquid, solid, and vapor. It is 10% more dense than H2O and has more dissolved oxygen. Structured water is a hydrating, energized water found everywhere in nature, from waterfalls, rivers and oceans, to plants, animals, and humans.

Wait, what did we say? Water isn’t just H2O?

No, it can actually form many other molecular shapes, but the one that is most beneficial is H3O2. Water forms H3O2 when it is exposed to energy–that energy being heat, movement, vortexes, sunlight, or minerals that have energy signatures like every other substance on the earth–that causes it to join with other water molecules in a hexagonal pattern.

H3O2 also forms on hydrophilic surfaces that are high surface energy, water loving surfaces. When water forms H3O2 on this surface, it is called exclusion zone, or EZ water. These hydrophilic surfaces can be found in humans, animals and plants, including fruits and vegetables, that allow them to absorb the water they need to live.

In the past, very little has been studied about water, but it is single handedly one of the most weird and wonderful substances on the planet. Scientists are making leaps and bounds everyday in the world of water and the many molecular structures it forms, because it is pretty much the most important thing on Mother Earth, right?

Does H3O2 Exist?

Experts and scientists have known there were different states of water for 200 years and maybe more, but no one had discovered the actual molecular structure of structured water until Dr. Gerald Pollack, a biomedical engineering research scientist at the University of Washington, discovered H3O2. Through his research in cell biology, he found how water reacts with hydrophilic surfaces inside cells and the actual chemical change of the molecules that make H2O into H3O2 inside the cell.

Dr. Gerald Pollack coined the term EZ water because when water spreads out inside the cell to form structured water, it excludes anything that is not charged the same as the water around it. This prevents toxins and chemicals from entering cells. Amazingly, we have a built-in filtering system using structured water inside our body.

EZ water is the very same chemical make-up of structured water in its natural, ordered form in waterfalls, springs, and rivers. Natural processes make H3O2 and unnatural processes, like forcing through straight pipes or exposing to strong electromagnetic fields, break it apart. In a world full of long pipes, wifi, and chemicals, it’s no wonder that our water isn’t the same as it is in mountain springs.

How Does Water Get Structured and Form H3O2?

So, we know that H3O2 is the natural, organized form of water that is found in Nature, but how does it actually get from H2O to H3O2? H2O, as we were taught in elementary science class, is two hydrogen atoms that have joined with one oxygen, but they aren’t stable. The atoms form different H2O molecules very fast, they never “hold hands” for more than a split second in time. It’s a chaotic relationship and is very disorganized. While H2O has some sort of structure, it’s important to note that the kind of structure that is most efficient and hydrating is the hexagonal structure formed when water is “structured.”

H3O2 is formed when electromagnetic waves or energy causes the electrons surrounding the hydrogen in the water molecules to increase their energy and change how the hydrogen molecule is connected to other water molecules. This is called changing bond angles. Changing bond angles in a specific way forms structured or hexagonal water. Using an UV light laser, we are able to measure specific changes in the molecular bond angles to confirm the water is structured.

From What Is Structured Water?

Autoimmunity, Complex Chronic Illness, Detox + Toxins, Eric Gordon MD, Nafysa Parpia ND, Therapeutic Diet, Video Blogs

Why do I need to test before detoxing?

Play Video

A short segment from Jill Carnahan, MD interviewing Nafysa Parpia, ND
for her podcast Dr. Jill Live. Learn how Dr. Parpia begins treatment
with complex patients, using testing to find the specific toxicant burden
and creating a custom path to begin detoxifying.

I want to detox. Can’t I just start?

Most of our patients need to detoxify. In fact – many people in the general public know that due to the toxic burden on the planet, there is likely a high toxic load that their bodies now have to deal with.

You need to know what toxins are affecting you so you can target those when you detox.In a previous post and video, we talked about the importance of cleaning up your food and water, and the parts of your environment that you can have control over in order to help to lower new toxins your body is absorbing from the outside world. What about the chemicals and toxins you already are dealing with in your body?

Determining your toxic burden is key.

Each person is individual in terms of how they absorb and process toxins. Some may easily be able to excrete toxins already accumulated in the body with little interference to their health. For others, their system struggles to remove toxins, either due to genetic issues with detoxification, or because of a pre-existing high toxin load. Still others may have issues with detoxification if they have gastrointestinal issues (constipation, SIBO, leaky gut, dysbiosis for example) or other underlying diagnoses.

Depending on what is involved, we may use different strategies for detoxifying. We don’t want to cause more illness when we mobilize the toxins – this can happen when the appropriate strategies are not in place.

We recommend personalized lab testing

In order to look at a wide range of inner biochemical as well as environmental toxicants:  herbicides, pesticides, and toxic chemicals from products like pharmaceuticals, packaged foods, household products, and environmental pollution.  We also look at heavy metals in the blood and urine, and as well we may take a look at the toxic burden of metals at a cellular level. If appropriate, we evaluate for mold/mycotoxin illness by testing for mold IgG allergens, mycotoxin load, and mycotoxin allergens.

Other factors affecting toxic load

Along with the more common toxicants, transient environmental events and geographical location can cause abnormally high levels of specific toxins not present in other areas.

For example, on the West Coast, we are seeing higher levels of arsenic and aluminum as compared to what we have seen in the past. Some areas may be more populated and people commute more, some may live near an airport, and some towns and cities may have a higher number of homes built with certain materials that contain toxins not present in other areas. The toxic chemistry from houses, cars, and other buildings has an effect on air quality. The reality is that the possible combinations of toxic chemistry are endless and ever-changing.

Genetics also plays a part

We also look at genomics and how different mutations may work together in symphony to create certain biochemical states. While we may run the same labs for different patients, we find different pieces of the puzzle in each person, and each person will respond to treatment in their own way. How you respond to your environment hinges a lot on your genes, so it is important to have an idea of this when creating your personalized detoxification plan.

One size does not fit all

Since your inner biochemistry and environmental toxin load is unique to you, we recommend personalized detoxification strategies rather than a one size fits all plan.

Detox + Toxins, Detoxification, Eric Gordon MD, Nafysa Parpia ND, Toxicity, Video Blogs

Pre-Tox: 5 Things You Must Do Before You Detox

Drs Eric Gordon and Nafysa Parpia deep dive into the many underlying causes of what can keep patients ill.

Play Video about Pre-Tox: 5 Things You Must Do Before Detox

Watch the video mentioned by Dr. Parpia or read the full transcript Underlying Factors of Chronic Fatigue – Dr. Jill with Dr. Nafysa Parpia

There are many important factors to consider when thinking about detoxing. At the Mycotoxins and Chronic Illness Summit Dr. Parpia talked about the importance of “pre-tox” and much more. All of the conversations and connections during this summit were nothing short of life changing, and we are excited to be able to share this small part with you. 

Before You Detox

Your inner biochemistry and environmental toxin load is unique to you

We recommend personalized detoxification strategies rather than a one size fits all plan.

Find out why it’s important to test before detoxing and learn what six essential pre-tox tests we recommend.

Read the post: Why do I need to test before detoxing?

Detox + Toxins, Detoxification, Eric Gordon MD, Nafysa Parpia ND, Toxicity, Video Blogs

Four Ways Mold Can Affect Your Health

An overview of the kinds of issues that mold can cause.
Nafysa Parpia, ND with input from Jamie Kunkle, ND

Mold illness symptoms manifest in multiple different ways that need to be addressed. In every case, removal from the exposure is critical. 

We find that diagnosis and appropriate treatment for mycotoxins and other environmental toxicants needs to precede and be concurrent with treatment for other chronic illnesses. 

The Mycotoxin and Chronic Illness Summit is over. There was so much important information, it can be hard to know where to start.

Following are the ways in which mold exposure can manifest clinically: 

  • Mold Allergy – Immune system reaction to mold exposure. Usually, removal of the mold exposure source will also remove symptoms.
  • Mold Toxicity – Many molds generate mycotoxins and biotoxins that impact several of the body’s systems. Simply removing the source of the mold exposure may not be sufficient to remove symptoms, as the toxicity has already started the process of inflammation and can continue in the body even after exposure has been discontinued.
  • Mold Colonization – Beyond the initial exposure comes a possibility of colonization, where mold becomes a resident within the living system, colonizing the surfaces of the body in the sinuses, lungs, GI system, and/or on the skin. Colonization does not reach into the deeper tissues, but now becomes an ongoing exposure to allergens, mycotoxins, and biotoxins and will complicate the impact. Even if the environmental source has been removed, exposure continues inside the body. 
  • Mold Infection – In very rare cases, when a patient’s immune system has been damaged by chemotherapy, AIDS, or other immunosuppressive factors, mold may infect tissues deeper in the body than what is seen with colonization, causing severe acute infectious disease.

Symptoms of mold exposures are many and can mimic and exacerbate those from other complex chronic illnesses such as Tick-Borne illness and other chronic infections, environmental toxicity, cognitive decline and neurological disorders.

Common Mold Exposure Symptoms

  • Confusion, disorientation
  • Difficulty in word finding
  • Impaired concentration
  • Difficulty assimilating new information
  • Reduced task completion
  • Hypersensitivity to bright light
  • Night blindness
  • Tearing, redness of the eyes
  • Blurred vision
  • Chronic aching muscles
  • Joint pain, morning joint stiffness, pain in weight bearing joints
  • Nausea
  • Loss of appetite

  • Weight gain
  • Abdominal pain
  • Chronic sinus congestion
  • Chronic cough that mimics asthma
  • Shortness of breath
  • Ice-pick like pain, or shooting electrical pain
  • Nosebleeds
  • Metallic taste or other unusual taste
  • Vertigo, dizziness
  • Ringing in the ears (tinnitus)
  • Rage or inappropriate anger, mood swings
  • Increased sensitivity to touch

  • Difficulty with sleep: getting to sleep difficulties, difficulty staying asleep
  • Excessive thirst, or frequent urination
  • Impotence
  • Irregular vaginal bleeding
  • Low body temperature
  • Hypoglycemia
  • Low blood pressure
  • Chronic yeast infections
  • Early onset of menopause
  • Panic attacks or anxiety, depression
  • Tingling, “needles and pins” sensations

Every generation has accumulated but often unseen toxic burdens that can affect their health and wellness. We have survived and adapted under substantial duress and adversity as a species. However, there are limitations on an individual’s health and functioning as these burdens continue to accumulate. Unfortunately, few of these toxicants are routinely tested for or identified until disease develops, and a syndrome diagnosis (based on signs/symptoms) is established. You may receive a diagnosis of an autoimmune condition, chronic fatigue syndrome or even Lyme disease (among others).

Mold is one of the most commonly missed and/or understated toxins of our lifetime. Many of us have had, or are currently experiencing an exposure to mold and its toxins (mycotoxins), and it may not be obvious. Identification is often challenging, and exposure can harm your system for years without a clear diagnosis.

Mold exposure can cause inflammation and toxicity in the body which further complicates symptoms from existing chronic illnesses. For example – many of our patients who already have chronic Lyme disease, neurological issues, cognitive decline, fibromyalgia and ME/CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) also have exposure to mold and the toxins that it creates – mycotoxins. In our clinical experience, treating the patient for mold exposure, and mycotoxins if it is also an issue, helps allow for their other multiple diagnoses to resolve faster.

It is said, if one works with Lyme, they will often find toxicity. The presence of such can be a predisposing factor or a relative result of the chronic illness itself. Many have developed increased sensitivities and poor detoxification responses after developing Lyme illness. Some were already exposed to the toxins themselves, suppressing and dysregulating their immune system response and allowing for a less favorable terrain and resilience to illness. Toxicity can be responsible for relapsing symptoms and can easily affect multiple different organ systems.

Other toxicants exist and should be evaluated for health/wellness and success of treatment are not to be understated either. This includes heavy metals, glyphosate, industrial, agricultural and water contaminants to name a few. These are also easily hidden from view as many are consumed or inhaled often with little immediate response.

Depending on each individual patient’s manifestation of symptoms and concurrent diagnoses, treatment may include oral, intravenous and physical therapies. Treatments are highly personalized to each patient.

There are many ways to support detoxification, some gentle and some more aggressive. The level of intervention is typically dependent on the overall toxic burden and constitution of the individual. This process is often gradual but has the potential to reestablish a more positive momentum of healing in the living system.

Allergies, Biotoxin Issues, Complex Chronic Illness, Detox + Toxins, Gastrointestinal Disorders, Immune Issues, Jamie Kunkle ND, Mold + Mycotoxin Illness, Nafysa Parpia ND

Underlying Factors of Chronic Fatigue – Dr. Jill Interviews Dr. Nafysa Parpia

Dr. Jill interviews Dr. Nafysa Parpia on underlying factors causing chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia.

They discuss what goes wrong with the body, how the cell danger response can become chronically activated, and some tips on treatments and testing that is useful in these patients.

Key Takeaways

Pre-tox (before detoxification)

  • Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS) often needs to be treated first to allow patients to tolerate other treatments.
  • Peptide therapies can be used to calm down the immune system.
  • Correcting sleep issues is needed before detoxification can start. Herbs, supplements, peptides, and certain antihistamines can be used.
  • Constipation needs to be addressed.
  • Any issues with the kidneys need to be looked at.
  • Herbs may be used as supportive therapies.

Detoxification

  • Detoxification needs to happen prior to and concurrent with treating infections. If the toxic load is high detox will cause negative reactions or “herxes.”
  • Each person has their own individual picture of factors causing symptoms, and will respond differently to treatment than other patients. Genetics are a factor there.
  • Treatment needs to be individually designed in response to that picture.
  • Arsenic and aluminum are being seen more, possibly due to the wildfires.
  • Medication is often required for the patient population seen at GMA.
  • Things patients can do themselves: coffee enemas for the liver, saunas or other means of sweating, dry brushing, castor oil packs, oil pulling, avoid buying foods and personal care products, home care products, etc. that contain chemical and toxins, eat organic.

Causes Behind Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia

  • Pathogens are often involved: often parasites, viruses, tick-borne illnesses, mold, dental occult infections, sinus infections (fungal and MARCons).
  • With infections, you not only have to treat the infection but also restore the system.
  • Heavy metals
  • Infections and toxins hijack the system.
  • Hormone imbalances, especially sex hormones and thyroid.
  • GI imbalances and infections.

The Cell Danger Response

  • A monitoring system in the cell, modulated by the mitochondria, that looks for danger from pathogens, toxins, nutrient issues, emotional or physical stress, or other problems that can impact cell health.
  • In response to signals interpreted as dangerous, the cell sends out signals intended to create changes that protect the cell.
  • This response is happening all the time as the immune system watches for invaders. The problem is when the danger signal does not turn off, and the cell gets stuck in a defensive state.
  • The system gets stuck in this repeating loop of incomplete recovery and re-injury, and they’re unable to fully heal.
  • The CDR has three phases.
  • When CDR begins in enough cells you start to get symptoms like fatigue, brain fog, body aches and pains.
  • Part One involves the innate immune system. The neutrophils, the macrophages, natural killer cells, monocytes, the mast cells.
  • In Part One the mitochondria produces less ATP, exports the ATP outside the cell walls, and begins to depend on glucose for energy in anerobic respiration.
  • If someone gets stuck in Part One, you can see HPA axis issues, allergies, asthma, chronic infections.
  • Part Two is when we start to rebuild tissue damage through cell proliferation.
  • Mitochondria begin producing more ATP.
  • Someone stuck in Part Two may show proliferative disorders, cancers, hypertension, different heart diseases.
  • In Part Three the body is restoring intercellular communication.
  • Hormones and neurotransmitters are important in Part Three.
  • When stuck, we’re going to see illnesses like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and fibromyalgia, autism spectrum disorder, PTSD, anxiety, depression.

Restoration

  • Chronic illness is traumatic
  • Regenerative treatments help restore balance

Transcript

This has been edited slightly for clarity and ease of reading.

Jill Carnahan (JC): Hello everybody! You’re here this afternoon with us and Dr. Nafysa, and I am so excited today about today’s topic.  I know a lot of you struggle with chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia. We’re going to do a really deep dive into some of the mechanisms behind that. You’re going to find some really fascinating information from Dr. Nafysa today that her practice, Gordon Medical Associates deals with and was actually instrumental in some of the research behind.  

So, stay tuned for that! Before we start, and before I give her a formal introduction, I want to just tell you a little bit of housekeeping. If you don’t already know, you can find all of these videos on my YouTube channel. Just go to YouTube and find my name, Jill Carnahan, and you can find all the 50 plus interviews there for free. I’d love if you subscribe or leave feedback there, or share those videos if you find them helpful. You can also re-watch them here on Facebook and on the podcast, so just all things medical here. If you do want information about blogs, information about Lyme disease, co-infections, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, other topics, you can find that on my website at jillcarnahan.com, and if we do mention any products or services, you can find those at drjillhealth.com.

So, Dr. Nafysa, I would love to formally introduce you, and I’m so glad you’re here today.  Dr Parpia has spent the last decade treating patients with complex chronic illness from all over the United States and the world. Her specialization is patients with tick-borne illness, environmentally acquired illness, mold and mycotoxin illness, autoimmunity, fibromyalgia, and chronic fatigue. Sounds real familiar! External factors to the body, such as environmental toxic burden, pathogens, diet, and lifestyle affect the balance of internal factors (and we’ll talk a little bit about that today); over or under expression of immunity, infection susceptibility, epigenetic expression, and cellular and biochemical function, mood and the microbiome.

All of these things are some of what we’re going to talk about that affect our mitochondria, which expresses fatigue, and some of these other things. Each of these aspects is different for every patient we see. Investigating to discover and remove the underlying cause while providing symptom relief, she uses cutting edge lab testing and deep intuition applied to the full range of scientific data to unravel the mystery of each patient. She then creates a carefully crafted treatment plan, highly personalized and healing.

She uses a synergistic blend of regenerative medicine, oral and IV micronutrient therapies, peptides, botanical medicine, pharmaceuticals, injection therapies, functional nutrition, and lifestyle counseling. She sees patients at Gordon Medical in the San Francisco bay area, and previously worked in Dr Klinghart’s clinic. She’s also, as I am, on the ISEAI (International Society of Environmentally Acquired Illness) board, and is scientific medical advisor for the Neurohacker Collective.

Absolute honor and delight to have you, Dr Nafysa! Thank you so much for joining me today.

Nafysa Parpia (NP): Thank you, Dr. Jill for having me. Such an honor to be here.

JC: Yes. So, we met through the ISEAI board, but I know this about the work you’ve done and it’s just, like I said, it’s an honor. It’s so parallel when I read your bio, you know, we’re all doing our things in our corners of the world trying to solve the mysteries of these chronic illnesses.

Before we dive into chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, I’d love to hear just a little bit, and I know our listeners would, about your story and, kind of how you got into medicine and healing. Tell us just a little bit about your journey into this field.

NP: I always knew that I wanted to help people in their healing. I began as a yoga instructor, and the more I taught yoga, the more I realized I wanted to go deeper with people, particularly in illness and in health, and restoring illness into health. And so, I went to Bastyr and I studied naturopathic medicine there.

It wasn’t until I was in the offices of Dr. Dietrich Klinghart, when I graduated, and I saw people who were very, very, very sick, that was when my heart just went out to these patients. I could see that they were suffering, you know, but they weren’t treated at other clinics, before going to his clinic, with very much respect. They were told this is all in their head, or they’re just aging, and there was minimal treatment or minimal diagnosis offered to them. I could just feel the depth of their illness, and it was painful to see the judgments that were put upon them. So, I wanted to help, in helping create treatment and protocols and really dive deep with these people and help them out of the suffering that they were having a hard time coming out of. Yeah, gosh, I love that, because most of us who go into medicine in some form, it’s this healer within us that really does want to just help and understand.

And I think especially those of us who end up with environmental toxicity, mold, pathogens, chronic illness. No one in their right mind would choose this unless they were a healer, right?

JC: Exactly!  It is definitely the hardest, most complex form of medicine. I’m sure you agree.  I love it! I know you do too. Like, I love the complexity.  I always say the more complex the better. But it’s really, really difficult sometimes and these are not, these are the cases that the most conventional doctors don’t want to see, sadly, so it’s good that you and I, you know, are welcoming them to our practice. So, you’ve had such a great experience with some amazing medical partners. You were with Dr. Klinghart originally. Was that right after you graduated?

NP: Yeah, right after I graduated.

JC: Excellent, fantastic! You probably got a little bit of good information on Lyme and co-infections and all of that there, and he’s so good at some of the environmental toxicity and the stuff that’s on the cutting edge. I always feel like the Europeans are way ahead of us, and because he’s originally from Europe I love his perspective. He’s not jaded like many, right?

NP: Exactly! So, it was really wonderful. That’s where I first learned, right after school, really how to work with this population, about the tick-borne illnesses and mold and detoxification therapies. And from there I really made it my own.

JC: Yeah! Was there anything in particular with that experience that you learned as far as how to approach a chronic infection or…  Well, first of all we’re talking about chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia. So, say you had a patient with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, from your early days was there anything that sticks in your mind about lessons that you learned about how to approach them?

NP: Absolutely! So, the first was to detoxify them first. To find out what the toxic burden is. So, testing through different labs, looking at different heavy metals or different chemicals, glyphosate, different pesticides and understanding what that burden is.

Because if we detoxify them first, then then we can get the immune system to be more modified. We can we can get it to be more able to handle the killing of infections.

JC: What a great pearl! And for those of you listening, you’ve probably been to doctors who are like, “Oh, let’s start these antibiotics.” But what you’re saying, which I’ve seen that as well, it’s like the body, if its toxic load, if its bucket is full, and that’s usually the ones that are coming to see us because some of that pain and fibromyalgia types of stuff. Again, we’ll go deep into why that happens and some of the reasons behind it is from the toxic burden in the tissues, right? So, if you take a person like that, they have infections that need treating but you throw these even herbal antibiotics, but for sure medications, it’s too much for their system to handle, isn’t it?

NP: Right. They’ll actually backfire. A lot of times they’ve got this hyperactivity in the immune system. On one hand they’ve got a hyperactive immune system and on another hand of the immune system it’s it it’s too weak to even mount an appropriate immune response. So many times, if we try to treat them with the antibiotics, herbal or pharmaceutical, first they’ll be sensitive to those treatments. So, we have to decrease the toxic load and get the mast cells in order first, and then like…

JC: I love that order, because it’s so important, I’ve noticed that with my own practice as well, where again, if there’s infection and toxins and mast cell activation, which is common, and chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, you really can’t go to treatment until you start with getting that mast cell calmed down and the detoxification at least under control.

What are some of the things when they first come in like that, would you, what kind of testing panels would you do for the initial assessment?

NP: So, I like to do the Great Plains panel where I’m going to look at their glyphosate, mycotoxins. Most of my patients do have a high mycotoxin load and also on their tox panel while I’m looking at a lot of chemicals. I’ll also do the Doctor’s Data heavy metal provocation, but I’m also going to look at metals unprovoked first. Just from Labcorp, just urinate in a cup or to have their blood taken at Labcorp looking for the ones that Labcorp will look at, like mercury, lead, aluminum, arsenic. By the way, I’m seeing a lot of arsenic.

JC: Yes!

NP: In people’s blood, and I think that’s from the fires. It’s not something I saw in previous years. It’s all of a sudden, this year, whoa lots of arsenic!

JC: I bet you’re right. I suspect with the fires there’s definitely a lot of metals that were released and I’m seeing more and more aluminum in all of my patients.

NP: Yes! Which I didn’t see.

JC: And I’m like where else is it coming from because we know like vaccinations over time can be a source, aluminum cookware, um, what are some other sources of aluminum that you think of when you see aluminum? Is there anything else that you think of?

NP: You know, I recently, I had a drummer. I have a drummer in my practice and he drummed bare foot and there was aluminum on the pedal.

JC: Wow!

NP: And aluminum was through the roof. I just measured it so…

JC: Wow, that’s so that’s so fascinating! Isn’t it funny when you find one of those, where you’re like, oh I think this is from this?  And arsenic too. I think it’s more in the rain water, but probably from the fires, and then the rain and the soils and yeah, so, wow! Very good! One thing we kind of glossed over, we talked about how you got into this medicine, but is there anything else that interests you about this population? I mean, we talked a little bit about the helping, the healer within you, but because again this is a population that is very complex. But you must love to solve problems. Is that one of your…

NP: I love to solve problems. I love to solve human problems.

JC: Yes! Yeah, exactly, right?

NP: I’m not an engineer, you know, but the human problems. But it is very much a mystery. It’s very much a puzzle and each person is their own mystery. So, while I run the same labs for everybody, I’m going to find different pieces, and one person will react very differently than another to treatment, or from the same exposure.  A lot of that has to do with the genes.

So, speaking of labs, I like to use the IntellxxDNA.  I found that they really looked at how the snips will interact with one another, as opposed to just here’s a snip, or there’s a snip. They’ll look at them together, and they really culled the research to look at what diseases are related to which genes that are acting in symphony with one another.  So, it’s an expensive test…

JC: This is great! I just started doing this. I have a couple patients pending. I did it on myself and it’s pending, and I’ve got Sharon coming on, so stay tuned for the show because I’m so excited because we’ll have her talk about that. She’s the expert, the medical director of IntellxxDNA. Yeah, I love that you’re using that, because I’ve been, so many genetic tests out there aren’t there yet.

NP: Yeah, I found that this one is the most informative.

JC: I agree! So, say you have someone, and again, we’re going to get to fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue in a moment, and the Cell Danger Response, which I do want you to talk about. But before we go there, say you do have someone with arsenic or metals, or say they have a little bit of mast cell activation, they have chronic pain and chronic infection and toxic burden and all these things. If you do find metals are you going to do that early on, detoxification, are you going to do maybe some treatment? Where would you order that in in your treatment plan?

NP: I think it depends on the person, but most of my patients I have to treat mast cell activation syndrome first. Usually, they come to me with that. They don’t even know they have it, so I just want to calm down the immune system. That’s the hyperactivity that I want to calm down.

I’ll use peptide therapies very often with that. I like to use thymus and Beta-4 to help calm down the immune system. I’ll use BPC-157 as well to help with decreasing inflammation. I’ll give them sleep peptides. Often, they need to sleep before they’re even ready to detox. Sometimes they’re constipated, so I need to deal with the constipation before they’re ready to detox, or else they’ll just be a backlog of toxicants that aren’t exiting the system. Sometimes they have issues with their kidneys so we have to work with that.  

Often with these patients I’m calming down their immune system while I’m working with other systems that aren’t quite ready for detox.  I’m doing like a pre-tox, I’m giving herbs to support, right, and then I’ll re-test some labs. See where they’re at. And also see where they’re at with the way they’re feeling. And then we’ll begin chelation therapy.

 JC: That’s tremendous and I always admire some of my best learnings are from my naturopathic friends because I feel like you guys have such a great training in some of those detox, what’s the name of it from naturopathic medicine of the detox pathways?

NP: The munterries?

JC: Yeah, I like that term because I’ve learned that over time, but traditional allopathic medicine, we’re not taught about this. Which is why most doctors, unless they go get extra education, they don’t even know. I feel like you guys have a lot to teach us in this way. Tremendous! What other things would you do? Some of the homeopathic remedies or drainage remedies or things? What about non-herbal, non-homeopathics, maybe epsom salt baths or alkaline water? Do you have any sort of just environmental or lifestyle things that are good for detox that you like for most of your patients?

NP: Yeah, most of them actually do well with coffee enemas, as strange as that sounds. Actually, it helps their liver to continue detoxifying. Saunas I think are really important, or at least getting the sweat going, because the skin is the largest organ of detoxification. And of course, making sure that they’re not using products that have chemicals and toxins in them, and they’re eating organic as much as they possibly can.

JC: Fantastic! Yeah, and do you do castor oil packs or a dry brush or some of those?

 NP: Yes! Yes, castor oil packs, dry brushing, oil pulling. Yeah, we use a combination of very classic naturopathic techniques along with this patient population, I have to use a lot of medications.

JC: Yes. Definitely, especially with MCAS you really sometimes need to layer four, five, six, things.

NP: Yeah! It turns out, when I went to naturopathic school these were the treatments that were taught to us, and they’re wonderful for the population that’s not extremely sick, and for the people that are extremely sick, they’re excellent, supportive, and I consider them foundational, but then I have to go into stronger…

JC: Right, right. I love it though, because we’re pulling from both worlds, because I like to learn from the homeopathic, naturopathic world, but we still need medications of course, on both ends, so great. So, we talked about your interest, and so let’s go, let’s dive into what’s behind these illnesses, because there’s so many. I’ll just let you talk a little bit about what’s behind, and then after that we can go into the Cell Danger (Response).  I definitely want to talk about that. So, behind these illnesses, what was so great is the bio that I read for you, you literally listed what’s behind these illnesses in your bio.  I love that, but talk a little bit about what those are, so someone who has fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, who is listening, what might be some of the causes behind that?

NP: In classic fibromyalgia they say there’s no cause, right, and then you get them working and they’re supposed to be better. Most of my patients are not like that. If I give them Lyrica it’s not going to really help. Maybe a little bit for a couple weeks, and then nothing.  So usually, I’m looking for pathogens, often parasites, viruses, tick-borne illnesses, mold, dental occult infections.

JC: That’s very common, isn’t it?

NP: Right, sinus infections, which I think is overlooked a lot. I bet you’re thinking the same thing about the sinus. It’s so close to the brain, and I’m finding a lot of funguses or MARCons in people’s sinuses, and once I treat that their brain fog begins to resolve, because I think of the inflammatory cytokines, the bugs that are in the sinuses…

JC: I find this to be one of the biggest missing pieces of people who’ve been to mold treatment other places.  I’m like, did anyone treat your sinuses? Like, no! This is a really big deal.

NP: I totally agree!  I’ll treat the sinuses the same way I treat the gut, actually, by killing the infections, restoring the whole thing.

JC: What do you like, let’s pause there real quick, because what do you like to use? I mean I have some herbal favorites and some prescription favorites, but what are some of your preferred ways to treat the sinuses? Do you do irrigation, do you do sprays, do you compound, do you do herbs?

NP: I do compounding very often. I’m going to start with Argentyn silver. I found that if people do this, if they nebulize it, not just spray it, but they atomize it so it really goes up high, then I’ve seen that really reduce brain fog. If they do this, and this is a tall order, like four or five times a day for two weeks. It’s changed people’s lives, people who are not chronically ill but that have brain fog, that has changed their life just doing that.

JC: And just plain silver or with EDTA, or would you use both?

NP: I start with silver, and then I also have them do at night a nasal probiotic flush, and then also I’ll have them put coconut oil in their nostrils because it’s hard to kill infections in the sinuses when they’re dry. They’ll do that for two weeks, and then I’ll move into using Chelating PX, which is EDT to bust up the biofilm.  And then if they have a fungus, I might use amphotericin or BEG spray if there’s MARCons, so whatever antibiotic they need.  I’ll use that, we’ll be atomizing that.

JC:  that was tremendous and I love a couple things you mentioned. First of all, that you start with silver without EDTA, because I think sometimes that biofilm busting is way too much. They get headaches or they get really sick because all of a sudden, it’s a dumping of the dead material that’s being… I think of the biofilms, if you’re listening, as pond scum. It’s like this kind of gross covering that keeps everything hidden from the antibiotics or the silver. So you need to bust it up to clear it out, but if you bust it up too much too quickly the system gets overwhelmed and the mast cells get angry too, right?

NP: They sure do! I think of it as a gentle way in before I, in fact that’s the way how I’ll treat most people. We’ll start and I’ll start gently and ramp them up.

JC:  I’ll just remember this, and the other thing mentioned, the dryness, because most of us aren’t flying a lot nowadays, but it’s just flying in an airplane, it’s so dry! That’s why people tend to get more sick, or used to. Again, now things are just very different. Still toxic, because they spray all these chemicals, but the dryness of the air. And here I am in Colorado, which is really dry, that really makes a difference, the moisture.  I love that you recommended… now are you having people just put it just in their nostrils a little bit?

NP: Yeah, just have them take a Q-tip and just put it in.

JC: Instead of Vaseline, which is petroleum-based, right?

NP: Right, exactly.

JC: Oh, that’s a great pearl. So, we talked about nasal and then I interrupted. What else would be the underlying factors in the chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia?

NP: So definitely heavy metals, which we already talked about. I think of this, it’s a whole soup, so it’s not salad like where’s the tomato, here’s a piece of celery, it’s the whole thing together in one soup.

So, metals, usually there’s a high viral load, I’ll measure people’s nagalase. I love the Infectolabs test, by the way, because now we can use T cells to look at if the infection is active right now or no, as opposed to looking antibodies where we have to kind of guess, right?  I’ll use that test to see if there’s a high viral load. If there’s mold, I like to look at the mold IgG, at allergens as well as mycotoxins. So, I’ll look at that on Labcorp.

Basically, I’m hunting for different infections and different toxins because those are the two things that I think hijacked the system. Of course, I’m looking at their hormones, their sex hormone panel and their thyroid, because those are areas that are going to be affected, as well, causing fatigue.

JC: Excellent! So, pathogens, toxins, infections, and hormones and oh this is great!

NP:  And the gut, of course the gut.

JC: Yes, and you always do like stool and organic acids, or how do you like to assess the gut?

NP: Yeah, I like the GI Map Test. I find it to be the most sensitive so I look there, and most of my patients also have SIBO, which I generally like to treat first.

I like the Trio Smart Test because you’re looking at hydrogen sulfide SIBO, and no other test has done that before. So that that will give us a chance to find SIBO in ways we haven’t been able to before.

JC: Yes, now the key is, then what do we do with hydrogen SIBO? I’ve read a little bit about some of the pearls for treatment. But if you do find hydrogen sulfide is there any particular things you do differently with treatments or herbs?

NP: You know for sure I’m having them decrease sulfur in their diet. But I’m using the same treatment as I would for regular SIBO, which is the Xifaxan, Flagyl, the bismuth to bust up the biofilm, goldenseal to prevent yeast.

JC: Yes, oh fantastic! Sounds so similar and so important, because again that gut…

I love that you mentioned two things that I think are so critical, that you really can’t get past, and that’s sleep and constipation. So, if you have someone coming in that has insomnia or constipation, no matter what kind of protocol you put them on, if they’re not sleeping and they’re not pooping, you’re not gonna get very far, right?

NP: No, no, no exactly!

JC: What do you feel for sleep, because a lot of these patients have sleep issues, and it’s related to everything else we talked about. Any tips or tricks that you have for helping patients sleep?

NP:  I have an ayurvedic sleep tea which I really like. There’s cardamom in it. Cardamom helps people stay asleep. There’s ashwagandha and shatavari in it, that can help people. Now there’s some people who that doesn’t help, or you know the regular things, like valerian or GABA or L-theanine, that’s not helping them. I’ll go to peptides for them. I like Epitalon for sleep, or delta-inducing sleep peptide. Those really, really help people and it makes me not have to use, and I’d like to not use benzos for their sleep, right? I found that peptides can be a way around having to use benzos for those people who just can’t sleep no matter what herb I give them or no matter what sleep hygiene techniques we give.

JC: This could be tricky in the tick-borne infections. They complain to that too, and the activation of the immune system, so I find that sleep issues for some people is really hard to hack. But like you said, between peptides and herbs and then there was some, oh I was thinking antihistamines can be, like hydroxyzine and those can be really helpful.

NP:  Yeah, because often actually I give ketotifen for mast cell activation syndrome and it really helps them to fall asleep. There’s the odd person, I found in my practice, that makes them groggy in the morning. Not too often, but sometimes I can’t give them ketotifen.

JC: Great tips! So, let’s talk about this Cell Danger Response (CDR), because I know Gordon Medical center was where, you had told me right before we got on live, that you guys had actually done some of the research with Dr. Naviaux (Bob Naviaux, PhD). So, tell us first what is it, and then you can just dive in, I can ask some questions, but I definitely want to talk about this.

If you haven’t heard about the Cell Danger Response, this is groundbreaking!

NP: So, at Gordon Medical we provided the patients that Dr. Naviaux did research on. This was right before I joined Gordon Medical. Gordon Medical and Dr. Naviaux were involved in in the research together then, and wrote the paper on this, and it is groundbreaking.

Metabolic features of chronic fatigue syndrome: Robert K. Naviaux, Jane C. Naviaux, Kefeng Li, A. Taylor Bright, William A. Alaynick, Lin Wang, Asha Baxter, Neil Nathan, Wayne Anderson, Eric Gordon, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Sep 2016, 113 (37) E5472-E5480; DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1607571113

So, the Cell Danger Response, it’s modulated by mitochondria, which is the energy producing part of the cell, and it’s also sensing when the cell’s not getting the nutrients it should be getting. So that means that the cell’s in danger. It’s signaling the immune system to take action. That there is danger. It can happen when there’s a virus in there, or a toxin that ties up nutrients, and the mitochondria will then send a signal to other cells. But that signal is that it starts to send ATP outside of the cell. So actually, around the cell membrane instead of inside the cell.

 The important thing to remember is that it’s not an on and off signal. There’s a little bit of the signaling every day to help your body pay attention to when there is an invader; a pathogen or a toxin or stress, whether that’s emotional or physical stress. So, it doesn’t have to be a disease. It’s really actually happening constantly as a normal defense mechanism, but when the signal persists, that’s when illness occurs. There’s a healing response that’s stuck in this loop and it just can’t stop. Mast cells are constantly activated, the immune system is constantly activated, so it’s like trying to understand, where do I cut that loop, how do I stop the cell danger response from happening?

Speaking of chronic fatigue, Dr. Naviaux, and Gordon Medical, the research occurred on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, itself.

JC: Yeah, so yeah, associated. I mean he’s associated Cell Danger Response with Lyme disease, with autism, with chronic fatigue, yeah, so it’s been really wide. Like it’s one of the things that I know you and I, we can see it unifies a lot of these complex chronic illnesses that we see. Almost all of them, actually.

NP: Exactly! Yeah, they’re stuck in this repeating loop of incomplete recovery and re-injury, and they’re unable to fully heal.

JC: Talk a little about that, because there’s the Cell Danger Response, with phase one, two, and three, and each of those, if it gets stuck, there’s different sets of illnesses and things. You want to talk a little bit about some of those, and the differences between them?

NP: Sure! Part One involves the innate immune system. The neutrophils, the macrophages, natural killer cells, monocytes, the mast cells. These cells come out, the mast cells come to prime the immune system and then the other cells will come out to begin the killing, and may actually do the killing. But the infected cells, at this point they stop making normal amounts of ATP, and this is when they start to export the ATP to the cell membrane outside the cell. That’s the danger signal, usually signaling the rest of the body cells, “Hey there’s a danger here, there’s a toxin, there’s a bug that’s activating the innate immune system.”

So, we see, if it happens in a lot of cells, that’s when we start to see the sick behavior: fatigue, brain fog, body aches and pains. If it only happens a little bit, we’re just going to get a stuffy nose. But at this point they’re depending on glucose for energy instead of ATP, because the mitochondria are now browning out. So, it’s anaerobic respiration. They’re producing little energy, so we’ll see illnesses here. If we’re stuck here, we’ll see HPA axis issues, allergies, asthma, chronic infections which are often underneath chronic fatigue syndrome and the fibromyalgia that I see. So, it can be stuck here and in part two and part three which I’ll talk about in a minute.

So, it can be stuck in different parts and all different systems of the body.

Part Two is when we start to rebuild tissue damage, and that’s cell proliferation. The mitochondria start to go back to producing more ATP, but it’s still anaerobic. We’re not burning fat still.  We’re still burning energy from glucose, but there’s less of an inflammatory signal, so here it’s more proliferative disorders, cancers, hypertension, different heart diseases.

Then there’s Part Three, where we’re restoring intercellular communication. The cells learn how to function as a part of the whole, so a lot of hormones are important here. Neurotransmitters are important here. So here we’re going to see illnesses like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and fibromyalgia, autism spectrum disorder, PTSD, anxiety, depression.

JC: I love it, because you really cover all of medicine like this. This is such an underlying cellular, like, we’re talking about at the cell level. One of the things that goes wrong, which is why when Dr. Naviaux really has presented his data, all of us were just like, wow! I remember two years ago, at ISEAI, when he presented, and you involved a little bit in the research. So maybe you knew some of the back story, but for me, and most of us, who hadn’t heard a lot of the research, it was literally jaw-dropping! Oh my goodness, this is amazing! Because it just puts everything together.

I’m gonna try to, I may not be exactly scientifically accurate. But for those of you who are listening, and you’re not super scientific, I’m going to try to explain in really simple terms what’s happening. You have a cell, and when the cell spills its contents, it’s broken, right? It like, spills out, then the contents get outside. That’s what’s triggering this, is outside the cell, it’s like, we call it like damage associated receptors. So basically, the damage to the cell, the contents of the cell got exploded or damaged or leaky, and then the outside is getting the signal that, oh, there’s cell contents outside the cell. This is not good.

I think of it real simplistically as you’ve spilled contents of a cell that was damaged, and outside the cell there was a signal. Because your body knows, it’s very smart, it’s like this should not be outside the cell. It should be inside the cell, and that’s the ATP.  The ATP as a cellular currency should be in the cell making energy for the cell. If it gets outside the cell this is the Cell Danger Response, and again, super simplified, probably not completely scientifically accurate. But for those of you listening to understand, it’s just the spilled contents. The cell’s broken, it’s damaged, and because this damage is telling the body, something is dreadfully wrong. You’ve got to mop up this mess you’ve spilled on the floor.

That’s kind of how I think of it in a simplistic way.

NP: Exactly that.

JC: So then, what do we do? Again, this is a cellular mechanism. There have been drugs studied to stop this that are highly effective. Unfortunately, they’re not available, right?

NP: Suramin.

So interesting. I think in medicine, we’re so good with A goes to B. Heart attack, broken bone, bullet wound, medicine knows what to do. But Dr. Naviaux calls what we’re talking about the black box of healing, the complex chronic illness. So, this is where it becomes highly personalized. When we look at the genes, we look for the toxins, we look, we’re looking for what is causing the most irritation in the system. For my patients, all of these things we just talked about, but usually it’s the immune system that’s the loudest first, and the mast cells. So back to that! Treating that.

JC: Back to where we started, which is starting with calming the mast cells, supporting immune system, clearing infections, treating heavy metals, toxicity, and then going down the road.

One question I just thought of as we’re talking, on fibromyalgia. I have heard some of the theories around having lactic acidosis, which is basically in the tissues you have a more acidic environment which can cause pain. Again, that can come from everything, it’s not a new theory, it’s nothing that’s different from what we’re already talking about. But have you found any sort of alkalinization therapies helpful? Like say, mineral water, Alka Seltzer Gold, some of those things, or even alkaline diets? Have you done anything along those lines?

NP: Absolutely! Alkaline diets I think really help, or intermittent fasting. For sure the detoxification is going to help.

JC: Yes, excellent! So, what else would we look at? Let’s go back to talk about chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia just slightly separately, because they are very similar in mechanism but we might treat them slightly differently.

Let’s start with fatigue, because fatigue is, most people who are sick they have some sort of fatigue.  They may not qualify for chronic fatigue (syndrome). Most of them do but even if they don’t, they’d usually have, and it usually is associated with brain fog. It’s so funny, because those of us in medicine, brain fog isn’t really defined, right, but every patient that we ever talk to, if we say brain fog, they know what we mean. So, we use that term a lot. How would you define brain fog, or what would people be complaining of when they come to you with that?

NP: Most of my patients have brain fog, actually. In tick-borne illness, I find the brain fog is actually more tied to pain than in people who have mostly just viral issues. But in both populations, the brain fog will manifest pretty similarly, or be experienced similarly. So, I just went into a room, and I forgot what I went there for. I went to the grocery store and I picked up peas, but I meant to get potatoes, or things like that. Or I just can’t think straight, a lot of them say I think I’m losing my mind. I actually find it’s more in the tick-borne illness patients that it’s that extreme, who say I think I’m going crazy.

But for women a lot of times, if they’re not sick, we can just fix the hormones. That’ll help them, right? But for these patients, if we fix the hormones, they’re still going to feel like they have brain fog. So that’s another sign that there’s something else going on.

JC: I love that, because I remember 15-20 years ago, when I started in functional medicine, I have a menopause patient or a patient with hypothyroid, and it’d be very simple, straightforward. We replace the hormones or balance their hormones or give them thyroid, and they feel better. And I don’t know when I’ve seen one of those kinds of patients lately, because there’s so many layers. If only it were that simple! Certainly, there are people who that’s all it needs is just a little tweaking, but I find that to be kind of a superficial level.

Not superficial, it’s very, very important, but it’s superficial enough that what we’re talking about here is usually way deeper causes. So, just doing that alone, unfortunately nowadays, at least for my practice, doesn’t usually 100% turn them around, right?

NP:  No, definitely not! I wish it would, and they wish it too. They say okay, now look, the labs say that my progesterone and my estrogen are back into balance, but I still feel the same. Still so terrible! Then I say, but you know that’s just a foundation for you? Now at least we have this foundation set, now we have to really get into the nitty-gritty of working on the immune system and working on bringing out the insults.

But what I also find is that once I can take, we can take the knife out, like the bugs, the toxins out, but  the symptoms still persist.

JC: It’s almost like a memory, right?  Even though you’ve cleaned up the terrain, the body still remembers and can kind of stay… What do you do with that? I’ve seen, we may even go into this, but I feel like emotional trauma, emotional health, some of these limbic system things are so critical. Tell me a little bit about your thoughts on that, and what would you do?

NP: I think that that’s really a big piece. That’s when a lot of times I might start to use regenerative medicine, actually exosomes or biological allografts. Those I found can really help. NAD IV can help a lot at that point as well. That’s looking at the biochemical piece, but you just talked about, and what I would consider such an important piece, which is the healing piece. These people have normally experienced a lot of trauma in their lives. That’s what I find.

Just like these illnesses have hijacked the different systems of their body, they’ve also had had people in their lives do what I would call hijacking their lives in some way. So much trauma, and so that that piece is really, really important.

I like to give them craniosacral therapy, and we have some amazing healers that we work with as well. So, I send them to the healers for that kind of work. Acupuncture…

JC:  I love that you’re mentioning that, because I feel the same and those aren’t my areas of expertise but I know people who do it. So whether it’s somatic based trauma therapies, whether there’s programs like DNRS program, Safe and Sound by Porges, or there’s a bunch of programs out there that are really helpful. Love craniosacral, love acupuncture, and naturopathy, we have some of the traditional emotional remedies, those types of things, with homeopathic remedies and things. Again, not my area of expertise, but those, all together can be really profound at that layer.

Because what happens with these illnesses, even if you’re healthy, you have a good family support system, the body subconsciously sees this mold or Lyme as a trauma, and so even if you’re super healthy and you weren’t abused as a child, it’s still a trauma. And then the medical system, I think, sadly, most of the time further traumatizes the patients.

NP: I agree, yeah, they really do. Because they haven’t been accepted.

JC: Yeah, they’ve been told they’re crazy, or go take this med for your mind, or it’s not… I mean, you might manifest as insomnia or bipolar or depression, anxiety, but these are not primarily psychological issues.

NP: Exactly, yeah, they’re secondary to the issue at hand, which is usually the infection or toxin.

JC: Yeah, I wonder nowadays if all mental illness isn’t really gut, microbiome, Cell Danger Response. I don’t know if there’s any pure psychological disorders anymore, because I can always find a root cause that’s actually physiological, right?

NP: Exactly, and then once it takes some time to turn these people around, but once they’re turned around, I see big shifts in their psychology…

JC: and moods and relationships, and it’s amazing, right? The whole dynamic to shift, so yeah, it’s amazing.

Well, let’s shift in our last couple minutes, because we’ve really covered a lot of ground. We talked a little about the limbic and some of these things, but what about just whether it’s social support, isolation, especially with COVID and the pandemic and all that we’ve experienced? What are some kind of mental health tips or social tips or things that you might encourage your patients to do, just to have a support system? Or anything in that realm that you would think about, or encourage them, or nature walks or things like that?

 NP: Yeah, there’s a lot of support groups out there. Sometimes I’ve heard patients tell me that, oh, that just really drags me into my diagnosis more. That’s just not what I want. And other people say, oh, I needed to meet more people just like myself. So, I think that everybody who’s interested should try to experience it and see if it’s for them or not. Some people it’s great, some people they don’t want that. Those I think are people who are more solitary people, and for them, for everybody, nature walks. I find grounding really helps. Just putting their feet in the sand, feeling the sunshine on them.

JC:  I love that! You’re in the bay area, did you say? You don’t always get sunshine.

NP: It can be cool down here.

JC: I love the earthing and grounding, and then, do you guys recommend pulsed electromagnetic fields (PEMF) in your clinic at all?

 NP: Yes and no. So, I’ve seen it blow up a lot of our patients. You know, they’re just not quite ready for it, so more towards the end of treatment I’ve seen it work really well.

JC: And with that NAD IV and exosomes and stuff, so the powerhouse is that. For me personally, at this level now, I love it, but I think it would have blown me out of the water five years ago. That makes sense.

Let’s see, I was thinking I wanted to go back to one other thing you mentioned, coffee enemas. I went to Switzerland for a detox, like the last two years, before, when we could travel. One thing that was there, that they had these coffee enema kits that were just so amazingly easy to use. It’s a Swiss mountain clinic. Used to be Paracelsus. So, we’ve actually imported those and I have them at the clinic. I want to be sure and let the listeners know if you want an easy way. Because I agree with you, the coffee enemas can be so profound, and you can get online kits and setups. Do you have those at your clinic that you sell or recommend at all?

NP: We don’t but, Ben Greenfield wrote a really good article, so I just send people that website. I’d love to hear about the winner.

JC: Perfect! I’ll include a link for the Coffee Enema Kit down here. I just want to mention it because it’s such a unique thing that we have at our clinic and we can ship to you anywhere in the U.S. We actually import them from Europe because they’re not made in the U.S. It’s a really simple setup with a bottle that’s bpa-free, and tubing and literally an instant, really, really clean low roasted green coffee with charcoal in it. It’s a German formula. It’s the cleanest thing I’ve ever found, and you just put it in the bottle, warm tap water, shake it up, and you’re done. So super easy to use. I’ll include a link in case anyone’s interested because it’s just one of those things where I found being in Switzerland, I’m like, we need this in the U.S. When I tried to figure out who had them, no one had them.

So last bit here. Where can people find you, where can people find more about you, are you accepting new patients? Tell us a little bit more about it.

NP: Yes, I’m accepting new patients. You can go to gordonmedical.com or just look up Gordon Medical Associates and all the information is over there. People come from all over the country particularly for the IV therapies actually. It used to be, when you were talking about socialization, it used to be that we had a big IV suite, and people would sit there and socialize. It would be their hangout time with people just like them, and they loved it! Now we can’t we can’t do it that way with COVID. People have their own private room, and we take all the precautions that we need to in order to make sure that it’s safe in there. But you won’t have company in there anymore…

JC:  But you still do it, and I have patients who have been there. So, again, nothing but good reviews and it’s just been neat to share a few patients once a while that have been back in here, so, I can attest to that. Just the great care. Now the other thing you mentioned. Before you go, you’re doing a summit. Tell us about what’s coming up with the summit.

NP: Yeah, so Dr. Gordon and I are going to be hosting a Mycotoxin and Chronic Illness Summit (July 12-18, 2021) through DrSummits. I’m very excited about it and hopefully you’ll be participating.

JC: I would love to!

NP: It’s going to be in June, okay, so we’re just starting right now. We’re hosting it with Dr. Christine Schaffner.  

JC: Oh wonderful! Because I love this stuff, so if you’re listening, I’ll be sure and if you go to the Facebook page, follow me on Instagram, just @drjillcarnahan, you will see the updates there. I’ll be sure and get information from you guys and share those links. So, if you’re interested in that summit, stay tuned I will have it on all my social media pages for everybody and we’ll share and I would love to be a part of it.

NP: Thank you! We’d love to have you!

JC: Awesome! Well, I can’t believe how quickly our hour goes! I think we’ve got some great information. Thank you so much for being here. We’ve got your website, I’ll be sure to include them. Thanks again for all the great information.

NP: Thank you so much for having me. Such an honor!

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Complex Chronic Illness, Detox + Toxins, Mold + Mycotoxin Illness, Nafysa Parpia ND, Toxicity, Video Blogs

Can Tick-Borne Illness Be Transmitted in Utero?

Dr. Nafysa Parpia discusses a case about tick-borne illness and in-utero transmission.

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Transcript (Dr. Nafysa Parpia)

This is a case about tickborne illness being transferred in utero.

I really love the Infectolab test, because it’s really been able to see what is real clinically, in comparison to what is real via laboratory diagnosis, in a way that I haven’t been able to see before. I just have one case of this in the lab, but I think that it’s telling and I can’t wait to do more cases like this with Infectolab.

Regarding maternal transmission of tickborne illness, there’s not much research on this, right? This case does strongly suggest maternal transmission, which is why I’m very happy with this lab, Because I wouldn’t be able to have a case where I was able to demonstrate something like this with a lab.

According to the CDC, untreated Lyme disease during pregnancy can lead to infection of the placenta. But spread from mother to fetus is possible, but rare. We see this in our clinic very often. OK, so we see people, we see families where the mother or the father has the diagnosis of tickborne illness and the kids do as well. But we’re not sure, we think, we always thought that yes, it was transmitted in utero. And there’s a little bit of research that shows, but we couldn’t really prove it in the labs. So, remember this is just an N of one, so we’re not calling it proof, but I feel like it’s on the way. If I can keep showing this in the labs I’ll feel more like we can prove that.

Know that our population is unusual. We only see chronically ill people. And because of that, our population is skewed to this group of people. That’s likely why we see such a high incidence of familial spread clinically. The population is growing, we see more and more than we did 10 years ago, our clinic is filled with people we have complex chronic illness and filled with families who have complex chronic illness.

Which is why I found this case so interesting. In this group of patients with more severe symptoms, we see a higher incidence of transmission in their offspring. But, still the CDC is just reporting on the population, on the general, the population at large. That’s not who comes to see us.

I want to get straight to the punch with respect to the labs. I’m going to talk about the family, and then we’re going to go straight to the labs results.

OK, so, a brief history. We’ll talk about symptomology after.

The mother, 48-year-old white female, she was bitten by a tick six or more years ago. Six to eight years ago. She has mold exposure in the house that was five years ago, and she kept, that family kept getting re-exposed to mold over five years.

There’s a daughter, she’s six, no tick bite known, but of course she had mold exposure since birth because the family kept getting mold exposure over the last five years.

Son, he’s five, no known tick bite, mold exposure since birth.

And the father has too, no known tick bite, And of course mold exposure.

They come to me with a diagnosis of only mycotoxin and mold illness. A doctor had diagnosed them with that and had tried to treat them, nothing happened. They got a little better here and there. They did get keep getting re-exposed to mold, which is a reason why they didn’t improve, but there was not a diagnosis of tick-borne illness. Nobody diagnosed them with that.

So, they come to me, wanting a treatment for mycotoxins and mold, and by their symptoms I think there’s something else going on as well as the mold and mycotoxin illness. Of course, I am thinking it’s tickborne illness based on their symptoms which will get into after.

Talking about the father, so just the Infectolab diagnosis.  I don’t have the labs showing up here, all three of them because it’s just too much paper, and I want to show you this side by side. So, I’ve tried to put things together on the slides as much as possible. In his Infectolab test, there’s no tick-borne illness diagnosed. At all! None! But he does have some cytomegalovirus, interferon gamma borderline, which means he’s fighting it off. A little bit, it’s there. That’s all he has. And of course, there’s mycotoxins and severe mold IgG allergens, which are elevated. Diagnosed by another lab.

Here I’m going to talk about the mother, the daughter, and the son. There’s a lot of writing on this slide. There are some important things all on the same slide so you can compare and see the sharing of the diagnoses.

The mother, she’s got, this is all by Infectolab now, she’s got Lyme, Bartonella, Epstein-Barr virus, cytomegalovirus, all positive in interferon gamma. Meaning that she’s, the infections are active in her right now.

Next, let’s talk about the daughter. Remember she’s just six. Take a look at the infections she has in common with the Mother. No tick bite known, okay? Lyme, Bartonella, Epstein-Barr virus, cytomegalovirus. So, we see the exact same infections here. She’s got interferon gamma and interleukin two both positive. When I see that, I’m thinking, she’s in the process of getting her immune system under control, as evidenced by the interleukin two. These are from central memory T cells, which means that her body is beginning to tamp down the inflammatory response.

Now, we don’t know if this is because of a child’s strong immune system. We don’t have enough data on that. Or is it that we’re finding her right in that time between transmission and active infection resolution? I don’t know. I’d like to know, but we don’t have enough data on that. That’s a whole nother point in itself, but the main thing, the take home message here is that the mother and the daughter both have the same infections in common.  The mother has a history of a tick bite, the daughter doesn’t.

Now the son. He has Bartonella, interleukin two positive, Lyme, borderline interleukin two and interferon gamma, borderline, Ehrlichia, interleukin two and interferon gamma borderline, Epstein Barr virus, interleukin two borderline, the cytomegalovirus interleukin two, borderline.

The difference I see here is that he’s got Erhlichia, and his mother and sister don’t. Perhaps they did in the past, and that’s not apparent now in their immune system with either interferon gamma and interleukin two, or maybe he did have a tick bite which transmitted Ehlichia to him. I don’t know. It’s possible that he had a tick bite that the family isn’t aware of. According to them there was no tick bite, but sometimes they happen, right?  Even when people don’t know.

So, he appears to have a lot that’s borderline, but his mother and sister are currently fighting, and like his sister it’s likely that his immune system has fought off a lot of this. But most recently, he’s been getting Bartonella. According to his labs it’s just resolving.

Let me get to the next slide here.

So that was the piece that I wanted you all to see regarding how in this test this is a clear case of the likelihood, of the suggestion of tick-borne illness being transmitted in utero. We see the same infections all around for mother to children. With some exceptions here and there. I wouldn’t have been able to see this as clearly on other labs. Because here we’re looking at the immune system, looking at the interferon gamma and the interleukin two, and what is active right now.

I want to get into the clinical picture of these patients of mine. After talking about the labs, I thought it would be interesting for you to hear about their symptomology.

The clinical picture of the mother, she’s got this pain trifecta; shooting, burning, aching pain in her, myalgia and also in the joints. Typically, this is due to Bartonella, mold, and Lyme, that combination. Sure enough, on Infectolab, the Bartonella was raging, and so was the Lyme. So, her symptomology did correlate with what I found on Infectolab here.

And, brain fog. Lyme and mold more than Bartonella would typically cause brain fog. And, you know, her Lyme was raging as well, on the Lyme.

Extreme fatigue, likely from cytomegalovirus. Her cytomegalovirus was through the roof, I forgot to mention this, and so was her daughter’s. Like through the roof. And that was another way to, sorry, that’s another infection to think about transmission familialy, obviously that does happen. I just see how their immune systems handle it in a similar way. It was very interesting.

And of course, the fatigue could be due to the mold and tick-borne illness combination. So, they’re all consistent, all her symptoms are consistent with Lyme, Bartonella, Epstein Barr virus, cytomegalovirus all being active, but now I’m able to with this lab, I’m able to tease all that out. Better than before.

So now about the daughter. Her symptoms were constipation, could be due to tick borne illness, mold, mycotoxins, cytomegalovirus. They are new patients to me, so we’re also doing a GI panel. Could be due to parasites or other infections in the gut.

The puritis, likely due to Mast Cell Activation Syndrome or mold.

The fatigue is minor in her. Could be due to tick-borne illness, mold, and cytomegalovirus. So, her symptoms are not as severe as her mother’s, and this is consistent with a finding of no interleukin two in the mother, while she has significant interleukin two. This is another piece of the lab I really like. So, looking at the interleukin two, we can see that these infections are beginning to resolve. And likewise, her symptoms are not as bad now than previous to her being diagnosed.

OK, so on to the son. He had fits of rage as his primary, primary symptom. In fact, there’s no pain, there’s no fatigue, it’s all rage, and that is consistent with Bartonella. His Bartonella is now interleukin two positive, and that suggests that he’s resolving this infection. The interesting piece is that before he came to me, he was having fits of rage about 7-8 times a day, and now they’re three times a day. So that would make sense that the parents were telling me that when he was having fits 7-8 times a day, several months ago, it’s very different to now, with the fits three times a day. If you think several months ago, likely, his interferon gamma was positive, and now that he’s got interleukin two, it’s likely that his fits of rage are decreased because of that, because there is some healing happening, there’s some resolution of this infection happening.  

But really, really important to note is that the behavior pattern was likely established by the Bartonella, so it’s a classic Bartonella mental piece. However, when a neurological or mental or physiological piece is established by any infection, and that infection resolves, the body knows that pattern, and another infection or toxin can come in and carry on that pattern. So, very similar to what Dr. Gordon was saying with his case, that the tick-borne infection was resolved, but there’s a pattern there that still will be carried. Do we continue on with antibiotic therapy, or any therapy to resolve the infection, or do we work on regenerative medicine? Pieces to modulate the damage that had been done by the infections or the toxic things we’re talking about.

So, with the Bartonella here, I’m seeing that he’s still having Bartonella fits of rage. They’re less than previously, and I’m seeing the interleukin two positive, meaning he’s pretty much resolved this now. So, why’s he still having those fits? Do I need to treat for Bartonella? No, I’m not going to treat for Bartonella very much, or at least not very aggressively, because this lab is showing me it’s mostly resolved now. So, I’m going to treat for the other infections that I’ve diagnosed with him, diagnosed him with, and other toxicants I’ve diagnosed him with to undo the patterns the Bartonella created.

So, thank you guys! That’s my piece and it’s some, seems pretty clear to me in this lab that there was transmission from mother to children in utero, because she did get that tick bite before she had her children, and apparently her children did not have tick bites.

Biotoxin Issues, Lyme Disease - Pediatric, Lyme Disease + Coinfections, Mold + Mycotoxin Illness, Nafysa Parpia ND, Video Blogs

Preventing the Failed Patient – Detoxification

The important factors we consider when working
with complex chronic illness

Environmental toxicants impair cellular functions. Lyme/tick-borne disease/co-infections, parasites, and viruses all modulate immune function to their advantage and the host disadvantage.

With exposure, the immune system is over-activated, causing hypersensitivity, allergies, mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and/or autoimmunity. The immune system may also be misdirected, and does not mount an appropriate response to infection.

Preventing-the-failed-patient

Most of our patients who present with long standing Lyme disease have evidence of a high environmental toxicant load through clinical history and laboratory results. They respond well to therapies that reduce the toxicant load, which leads to normalization of the immune response. Everyone benefits from detox, but in these patients, it is mandatory.

Toxicants that hinder the healing cycle may include: mold toxins, biotoxins and other neurotoxins, heavy metals, high EMF exposure or high sensitivity to it, environmental toxin burden such as high perchlorate, PCBs, glyphosate (Roundup), other pesticides and other chemicals.

Consider whether you:

  • Live/lived in a home with mold or water damage?
  • Live/lived near or on a farm or vineyard? how far from?
  • Live/lived near freeway? How far from?
  • Live/lived in an industrial location?
  • Live/lived in home while it was being renovated?
  • Ever worked with chemicals – artist, dark room, painting/renovating homes, industrial work?
  • Use pesticides, insecticides, herbicides in your garden or your neighbors use them in their gardens?
  • Have metal amalgams in your mouth?

Treatment for toxins needs to precede and be concurrent with herbal and antibiotic treatment of persistent tick-borne disease. It includes appropriate oral, IV and physical detoxification therapies PLUS MCAS treatment. If mast cell activation is on a hair trigger even detox may cause flares.

Biotoxin Issues, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Complex Chronic Illness, Detox + Toxins, Detoxification, Lyme Disease + Coinfections, Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS), Mold + Mycotoxin Illness, Nafysa Parpia ND, Toxicity